Welcome to the REI Agent. My guest today is Tamara Day, a Kansas City-based interior designer, investor, and HGTV host of Bargain Mansions. Her national television platform has given her a unique reach, but what sets her apart is she is still deeply active in the trenches designing for her clients and investing in real estate every day. Tamara, welcome to the REI Agent podcast. Thanks for having me. This will be fun. Yeah, I’m excited. Man, you have an HGTV show, and you renovate mansions. How did you get there? Where did that story come from? It was really a happy accident for me. We were young and married and bought our first house together. My husband had a long history of renovating houses. He bought his first house when he was 16, and his parents had, at the height of their purchasing, had 75 rental houses. He learned from them growing up how to do flips, how to do rentals. When we bought our first house together, it was in really rough shape. We renovated it, did really well when we sold it, and have continued doing that. In 2008, that was when everything really changed. His day job was in the financials world. We had three babies that were three, two, and brand new. I’d been staying home for a long time. He was working his day job, and we were halfway through renovating this house. It was fall of 2008 when AIG and Lehman’s went down, and his income dropped 90% overnight. It was a nightmare. We fired the contractor. We fired the designer. We fired everyone. He worked all day, and I worked on the house all day. If there was anything I could physically do, I started doing it myself. That tile, I put it in. There’s so many things like that in the house that it’s like, oh, yeah, I remember carrying all of that through the house. Every stick of wood for the floors on the first floor, I carried off that semi-truck while the guy smoked a cigarette watching me do it because we didn’t want to pay somebody to do it. He wasn’t willing to do it and help me. He was fine standing there for an hour and a half just watching me carry one board at a time. Got my hands real dirty, and oftentimes, baby’s taking naps in a construction zone and just trying to get through the tough times. Luckily, things turned around for us the next year. We were able to move in and get it going, but we had this giant house and furniture that didn’t fit. We needed to refinish it, and I started buying estate-style furniture and refinishing it in the driveways. Friends started being like, well, I really like that chair or that cabin or whatever. Can I buy it from you? I was like, okay, well, I paid $20 for it. I’ve got $5 of paint in it and an hour’s work. House, $300. Yes. Sold. Our driveway was a paint studio, a refinishing studio for a long time. Those were our driveway days. We started doing these estate sales-like events at my house twice a year, spring and fall. I invited all my mompreneur friends that were selling bags or earrings or oils or whatever it might be to have a little space in the house. We would have 1,000 people come through the house in a weekend, food truck in the front yard. It was such a fun event. It was all word of mouth, all mom-led people getting the word out. I would go back to that in a heartbeat. While people were walking through, they started seeing my house. This was, again, 2009 when this started. I’d done a white kitchen, subway tile, marble countertops, and no one had ever seen that before. Joanna made it popular five years later. It was a brand new idea. Open shelves. It was wild and crazy ideas. Everybody flipped out. They wanted me to come help them with theirs. That’s how my design business started. While that was all happening, all of our rental properties were worth less than we had paid for them. It was a nightmare financially to figure out. By the end of 2009, it had right-sided everything. We were in a good spot. We decided, you know what? We’re going to take the profit while we can on these houses and sold most of them and started flipping that into commercial real estate where we started buying our first real estate property was the Guitar Center. We bought the building they were renting and had a long-term lease on it. That was how we evolved into that. The show came about because they had seen the estate sales and they saw what I’d done with our house. They wanted to see some of our rentals and started talking to them. They had already pitched an idea of a show in Kansas City to the network. They loved the idea, but they needed a host. They were looking for someone. When they saw the work I was doing, the work I had done, they said, let’s go. Here we are almost 11 years later, six seasons, 70-ish bargain mansions later. That’s wild. I mean, was it on social media? How did they find it? Five years earlier, my brother was renovating a house downtown and met a casting person that was looking for somebody to do a commercial for her or for a business she was representing. He saw her at a hardware store and she was like, you’re cute. Would you want to do a commercial? He was like, okay, sounds fun. He gave her his number and she called him five years later and was like, this guy Matt moved to Kansas City from LA and he’s looking to do an HGTV show and needs a host. So I’m calling everybody I’ve ever met. And he was like, thanks. I got a job. I’m good. Not real interested. I don’t do houses anymore. Call my other brother. He does some cool woodworking stuff. And so she talked to my other brother and he met Matt and Matt was like, oh, you’re cute. You’re cool. But I can’t do a show about tables. Thanks anyway. And he turned around and he walked out and he’s like, you know, I don’t know what you’re looking for, but if you want house stuff, my sister does some really cool flipping and designing. You might check her out. And from there, Caleb talked me into meeting Matt. I thought it was a total scam. I didn’t, didn’t really believe it. And finally he was, I was like, okay, fine, I’ll have a lunch with this guy. And I met him. I was like, oh, well he seems actually pretty legit. He’s done some shows I’ve heard of and okay, what’s, what’s the worst that can happen? So basically if you have two cute brothers that people like, you get a TV show is how that worked out. That’s awesome. That’s such a great story. It sounds like, I mean, your, your whole family is like, uh, hands on, like, uh, you know, handy. Like did that, did your parents teach you that? I mean, where, where did that come from? Or were you like artistic through school? Like, you know, um, it is definitely runs in the family farm, farm kids. My dad and mom were both farm kids. Um, they grew up, you know, in Western Kansas, do it yourself mentality and pretty much everything. And I grew up in a house where my parents always knew the value of the best piece of real estate they could purchase. And so they built, they didn’t run it. They never renovated a house. They always built from the ground up, but they dug great basements. They renovated the first floor to the point that we could move into it. And then while we lived in it, they would finish out the basement or the upstairs, depending on the house. And so weekends were spent sweeping wood putty. Like I remember it, I don’t know, it’s the first memory of being in time out. And I sat on the staircase, picking out the wood putty on the stairs. I was like, well, that looks like something to do. And I picked it all out and my dad lost it and made me learn how to put it back. So yes, I definitely come from a DIY background. And yes, all of my siblings also do all the things. That’s, that’s really cool. Um, we, it’s also really hard. I mean, like, so you’ve done it now. I mean, you grew up in that environment, uh, the house you’re in now, you, it was a live in flip, right? I mean, we did that with the house we’re in, um, and I, I just still have pictures of our kids crawling over the most disgusting carpets, like in the world, they are so stained and so bad. And like, we wanted to put in like something like hardwood or whatever. We just didn’t have the money for it when we first bought. So like, we just lived in it for a while. And then when we did, we did a flip to be able to pay for a renovation, um, of the house. And when we were able to do that, it was miserable. Like we had, we were in the basement, um, while the upstairs was getting renovated and we were like doing dishes in the sink and we had little kids, it was, there’s some dark day. It was also COVID that, that, that kind of darkness all around. So I don’t look, I don’t want to do it again is what I’m trying to say. Like, would you, would you, I know you’re in a different position, you probably would never need to, but is it something you would consider, uh, doing a live in flip again now that you’ve kind of gone through it? Absolutely not. I, I very strong, like I can get strong and armed, strong armed into doing it for clients that they really want to stay in the house, but I push really hard that it’s just a miserable experience to live through. And if you want to do it right and you don’t want to lose your mind and you want, want to love the house and not move in angry, like don’t live there. You, I think that it takes such a mental toll on you to live through the construction, especially if you’re not in the industry. Like I I’ve got to say, we, my house has never done, we’ve been here for 18 years now. It’s never done. It’s never going to be done. There will always be a project. I just ordered a new fireplace around this morning. Like that’s going to get done. I’m not moving out for that. Like we live with construction often, but what I see clients and homeowners do is that you live in the basement and so every night you go up and inspect every inch of work that has been done. What about this? What about that? And it creates this sense of like, nothing’s getting done right, even though it is getting done right. You just may not know the process and it builds mistrust in the process. It builds a feeling of, am I being taken advantage of? Is this, are they good enough? Are they quality? Is the work going to be what I wanted? And your mind is spinning nonstop versus if you come to a site visit every two weeks, you have this, oh wow, look how much got done. A moment. Feels a whole lot better. Yeah. No, I can see that for sure. And I agree completely. Like I would, I think what we did was great and I would do it again and I agree. I think we’ll keep, you know, keep having projects throughout. But like to have like, yeah, your kitchen on is just, it was miserable. And yeah, we just couldn’t have afforded back then to do it a different way. But it’s kind of like when you have, I advise people, if you can buy a house without selling, that is a luxury and it’s just, it makes the process so much easier. It’s kind of like that, right? Like, I mean, it’s just, it’s a way better way to go if you can do it, but not everybody can do it. Yes. Well, and we, I will say, we did not live in this during the majority of the renovation. We did have a rental house that we lived in that made all the difference, but it was still really, really tough. But this house was a short sale or a foreclosure. It started as a short sale, became a foreclosure, and it had sat vacant for almost a year. And it had had squatters, it had cats, it had a hole in the roof, the size of my bedroom. It was, there was, it was not inhabitable at any point. And it had five dumpsters of trash before Reno started, like food, needles, boxes, all the appliances had been beaten with bats. The lights had been yanked out of the ceilings. The doors had been kicked down, like it was probably the worst house I’ve ever done. Wow. Yeah. It’s amazing. Great deal. Well, I mean, that brings me to one of my first questions is here is you’ve renovated dozens of homes across Kansas City and built a business around spotting potential in overlooked properties. When you walk through a property, what do you see that others might not, or how can you envision what’s going to be possible when other people would just be like, oh my gosh, no way. Like what you just described, 99% of people would be like, oh my gosh, no way. And the funny thing is, is when I walked into this, my husband was out of town. I had the three babies, I had a backpack with a baby, I’m holding babies on either side and walking through, I’m like, this is exactly what I want. So either that says I’m crazy or I’ve got something. And I think what I have that other people don’t is that I can see space visually. I can envision the space of what it can be very, very well. And I’m not stuck in what it is. I’m stuck in what it can be. And I’m not afraid of moving a wall. I’m not afraid of, you know, just the thought of a space. This space doesn’t necessarily have to be what it currently is. You can take a kitchen and move it to a different part of the house if it makes financial sense, which we’ve done. We did a house five or six years ago, the kitchen was in the basement, it made no sense. It was like the most absurd place to put a kitchen. And they had this phenomenal vaulted ceiling, gorgeous hearth area that was a huge kitchen area that was just a living room and was the exact spot you’d want a kitchen. So we completely took out the kitchen in the basement, turned it into a bar, put in a whole new like top tier kitchen upstairs in a completely different space. So seeing like what could be versus what is, is I think my biggest gift. And I guess you kind of grew up in that environment. I think, you know, it’s, it becomes a lot like you can trust the process a lot more. I would agree with you that I can do the same thing. But definitely having gone through flips, you can trust the process a lot more and know that like once you get to like, you know, paint or the hardwoods being refinished, like that’s when it gets exciting. That’s like when you’re like, finally, oh, you can like, oh, this is this is coming together. And it’s not like kind of depressing to come in here. It’s exciting. And so you can trust that process probably, as well with with more reps under your belt. For sure. And you said that the show’s on 70? We’ve done six seasons, and I think it’s somewhere around 70. I can’t remember. It’s like 68 or 74. Something in that vicinity. Yes. So we’ve seen a few things transformed. Yeah. Okay. So obviously, not every renovation goes exactly as planned. What’s the biggest budget blowout you’ve experienced with Bargain Mansions and what caused it? And what did it teach you about how to protect margins in the future? The largest one we ever had was, I believe it was season two. And it was a house that was a ranch, and we were popping it up. And great foundation, great layout, the floors were in good shape. We were knocking down a couple walls, but nothing, not not real major. In the reconfiguring of the layout on the first floor, it was mostly just popping up the top and making it a story and a half. The day, I feel like the biggest budget blower was that the contractor we had hired, who was supposed to be a top tier award winning builder, took the roof off and then didn’t come back for a month. It rained into the house for a month. My husband and I were over there trying to plastic the windows up, trying to, you know, like all the windows have been pulled. Like he just basically was like, see in a month when I get back from whatever, wouldn’t answer phone calls was very, very difficult. And it rained into the house for a month. And it destroyed all the flooring, all the sheetrock and was feet deep in the basement. We had to rip everything out. So that was a tremendous problem. Came highly recommended, very, very frustrating, frustrating experience for sure. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I can imagine. And I’ve, that is such a problem. It can be. And you know, I, having a contractor that will just like give you an accurate idea of when they’ll start, um, when, when, and then when they start that they’ll stay on the job. I mean, I know it’s the balance of juggling, uh, you know, trying to keep their guys busy, trying to not turn down business and, and all that stuff. Cashflow’s gotta keep going for everybody. I get it. Cashflow’s gotta keep going for everybody, right? Like they have to have multiple projects going, but if you don’t project manage well, it’s terrible. Like, yeah. Cause it will. And it just eats into, even if you don’t have a, you know, a roof gone, which is just insane. It’s just a stalled project that costs money that, that, you know, holding costs, all that stuff, time is money. And like, you can’t just afford months of no progress. So that’s, that’s brutal. It was brutal. That was the worst. I can think of others that budget busted, but that was by far the worst. So, um, I would imagine that like, I mean, do you, do you typically have like now, like this is my contractor, this is, these are my people, or, um, do you still kind of have new ones come every once in a while and how do you protect yourself from that happening again? You know, I think, um, I think that what is really interesting about the contractor world is you can have a contractor that can do five projects and do them really, really well for you. And you love him and it goes perfectly smooth. And then there’s a sixth project and you’re like, where’d the guy I knew go, like we’ve done all this together. And now like, what, what has happened in your world that you’re dropping them also phenomenally. Um, so there are no guarantees, uh, is what it boils down to, but you get what you pay for also. And I think that we have done projects that are $50,000 renovations. We’ve done projects that are million dollar renovations. And when, when you try to cut corners, there’s always a cost and making sure you’re paying attention to that. Hey, I like the consequence of cutting a corner of like, instead of having a general contractor, we’re just going to project manage. We, we really like this, this person for this thing and this person for this thing. And when the homeowner starts piecemealing it, it’s not, it is not the way to go. You think you’re going to save money, but the cost on your mental sanity, the actual dollar cost increases, you you’ve lost money when you start doing that. And keeping that in mind is huge. It is so tempting to be like, Oh, I’ll, I’ve got a friend that’s an electrician. I’ve got a friend that, yeah, but you’ve got a contractor that is going to manage all these people. And yes, you pay him a percentage. It’s worth it because he’s going to be responsible for them showing up. He, not you, he’s going to be the one making sure that it gets done right. But if you are project managing each of those people yourself, nobody but you is responsible and you’re going to carry the load if they do it wrong. It makes a ton of sense. You know, as a, as an agent, as somebody who does renovations from time to time as well, I have my go-to people for sure. And they, but they like respond to me because I give them a lot of business. Right. And so if you have a general contractor, they’re going to be the same way. Like if they need to sub stuff out, they are going to have people I’m sure that will, they have a good working relationship. They don’t want to burn that bridge, that kind of stuff that as a average homeowner, you probably don’t have that kind of rapport with all the different people. They’re going to put you at the bottom of the list or whatever, especially if you’re just trying to get it for cheaper. Right. And I have contractors, like somebody asked me recently, do you have, I just need this one thing done in my house. Do you have a guy? And I’m like, I’ve got a guy, I’ve got a guy at every price point. Which one do you want? You want the one that’s going to give you a headache and is going to show up late and he’s going to, but he’s going to be cheap. Or do you want the guy that it’s going to cost a little bit more, but it’s going to be done perfectly. It’s going to be done on time. It’s going to be like, which, which one are you looking for? And if you pick this one, I will give you the number. I am not responsible for the outcome. I like that. That’s true. I mean, so you’ve built this national brand through TV, a design business. You are doing retail stuff too, right? We should get into that. We do online retail. We did a retail store, opened it during COVID or three months before COVID. So that was not ideal. That was a tough year. And it also was tough in that I thought I could do more with my time than I could. I was filming two seasons. We were, we were halfway through a season, picked up another season during that year. So we opened the retail store December of 19 and by March we were closed for COVID, which was when the show was airing. And we would watch cars drive through the parking lot, wanting to come in and see it all and drive away. And we weren’t set up with online retail at that point. And so it was heart crushing for months. And we were limited on how many hours we could be open. We were limited on how many staff we could have in the store. Like there was a lot of limitations surrounding what we were able to do. And it turned out that while I was filming, I could only be there an hour a week, which is not enough time to run a business. So it was unfortunate and learned a lot. But because of it, we opened our online retail, which is so much better. You were saying that it’s, it’s like things that you can, you can like decorate the house with really. So artworks, lamps, tell me, tell us more about that. One of my really fun things that I get to do and is such a privilege because of the show is getting to do product design. And so I work with different companies like Quorum Lighting and design overhead lighting with them that we sell nationally. It’s also on my website. We work with Stylecraft and do art, pillows and lamps and case goods with them. We are working with Jiffon and have beautiful upholstered furniture coming this, this fall actually. We have rugs with Lavin. We have mirrors with Veriluz, wallpaper that is beautiful peel and stick with roommates, cabinetry that we, for people that want to reface their cabinetry. We design cabinetry doors with front and center and they’re spectacular. I just put them in my dining room. And so we have all these beautiful product lines that I get to design every bit of it and turn it into a product that can go across the world, which is super fun and get to sell it on my website, which I love. Yeah, that’s awesome. And then do you have like drop shipping kind of style? Like if somebody else is taking care of the, like, I imagine. We’re not packing anything up. Take the fun out of it, I’m sure. Yes. All the fun would be very gone. I mean, so you really maximize kind of like, you just kind of niche down in this design kind of element thing and been able to build a brand, build things off of it. How do you, what advice would you give somebody who’s trying to build some kind of like multiple income stream type thing on, on, around, you know, their, their one niche? You know, I think, um, I think the retail store is a perfect example of, I thought I had all the time in the, like, I’ve got time, I can do all the things, but the reality is I had four children, a husband, uh, 10, well, no, let’s see, no, we had 20 episodes that year that we filmed. So 20 houses under renovation, I had, um, the retail store, it was, it was a lot to take on. And the reality is you can only do so many things well, and then COVID hits and that doesn’t help anything either. So it was, it was a calamity of errors, but it really taught me that if you just really focus in on what makes you happy, what you enjoy doing, that you really will turn that into revenue streams. And that is, that is what has given me a lot more satisfaction is I enjoy filming the show. That’s great when we get to it, but when it’s not happening, I get to do all these other crazy, amazing things like design lighting and rugs and pillows, like that is so fulfilling, so fun. And I get to work on projects for clients. I get to work on nonprofits that I care about that are really, really fun to do. So it’s, it’s a lot more satisfying than, than being in all these different buckets that I can only do kind of well. Sure. Yeah. That makes tons of sense. You’re a, you’re a driven person that is a high achiever. How do you keep yourself going if, if there, you know, what’s important to you to kind of have a, do you have a daily routine, do you have to do exercise or what’s, what’s important to you? Well, I would say I recently got the Aura Ring, which I am a giant fan of. It makes me take my steps because a lot of times I get stuck at the computer all day and then I haven’t taken my steps. So that has been a game changer for me in making sure I move and just, I do the vibration plate every morning. We have one of those. And I think that really helps. I’ll also go down there midday. If I’m having a stressful day, if shipment didn’t go where it was supposed to go on time or something showed up broken, I go stand on that vibration plate and get my, my anxiety down. But I think the big thing that has been a priority is me. I turn it off at six o’clock, five, six o’clock, I’m, I’m all done. I’m not curing cancer. I’m not, I am making things really beautiful and I can’t design beautiful things if I am completely stressed out. It doesn’t work. Um, those two don’t go hand in hand. And so making time to go for a walk, eating healthy, um, I do a lot of, um, I travel a lot and so I do IV therapy, um, at least once a month I go have IV therapy because I know that when I’m in crowds, I am, I get tired from the traveling. I’m about to get sick and I think the IV vitamin therapy is one of the biggest things I do for my health. That is impactful. I love pause over here in, um, just around the corner from me and I can go in there, be relaxed, get a great, great dose of health, a great glass of tea and just relax for that time. And it really fills me. But I also read a lot. I probably read a book a week on average. And so that is really my, I don’t watch a lot of things, but I listen to a lot of books while I’m doing my laundry, while I’m making dinner or running errands. I’ve got an earbud in and I’m listening to a book. I love it. I love it. I have, I have a couple of questions that I’m thinking of, um, in all these houses that you’ve renovated, uh, are a lot of them in the foreclosure kind of condition, like the one that you’re just in. And if so, um, what’s the craziest thing you found in a house? Um, I would say it’s at this point it, in the beginning it was almost all houses in this condition, the first several seasons. But then, um, now it’s more just renovating people’s homes, um, and not nearly quite the calamity that that was, um, I would say the craziest thing I ever found was a mummified raccoon in the wall of a house that was really wild. It was a full, full size, just shriveled up raccoon hanging out, um, and I have pictures of that somewhere on my phone, but I think I’ve, I’ve found, for some reason I’ve found like six taxidermy squirrels, like, I don’t know why it seems like every, every house I take on, uh, that has to come with a mummified or a, just a taxidermy squirrel. That’s hysterical. I’d say the other interesting thing, the most fascinating thing I found, um, not necessarily weird was, and I don’t even know how I saw this because it was literally, it was a piece of paper, this big cut out of the newspaper and it was the original listing for the house and it was a hundred year old house. So for some reason, somebody had cut this up and we were cleaning out the trash in the room and it just caught my eye and I picked it up and the house originally sold for $18,500. And I gave it to production. I remember giving it to them. I was like, Oh, this is cool. Save this for me. And then it’s gone. No idea where that went. That’s really cool. I don’t know how you would have seen that. I mean, usually the cleanup is like, just, you know, get it all out as fast as possible. Yeah. That was a fun find, I would say. One of the things I’ve seen on social media is, you know, that trend of like, I’m the designer and I think we should do this. And then it’s like, I’m the contractor and then it interrupts. I’m the designer. I wonder if you have any fun stories or times where that’s been true for you and where you have a grand design and the contractor is like, what are you talking about? That’s not possible. I would say every single project has that happen. That is a norm for me, I would say. You know, I think what happens is that so many projects just are like stereotypical. People don’t look outside the box and so they just fall into a routine of just how we always do it. And so when you show them like, oh, no, I want this triple bullnose edge countertop and I want it to waterfall like this. They’re like, what? Like, that doesn’t work. We can’t do it that way. Yes, you can. And let me teach you how. And let’s talk through exactly how this will get executed. And I think that that goes back to the whole, like, I can envision a space completely reimagined and I can envision how something becomes built. And I think that is like that really unique pairing of designer builder that I have where I’m not just seeing, I just want this pretty thing. It’s like, how does this all come together in a sense? And that puzzle piecing part of my brain works really well at that. Yeah, that makes sense. You have thought through the logistics of how it’s actually going to work, even if they aren’t familiar with it or whatever when you first tell them. Well, and I will say sometimes, sometimes the way I think it should get built is not the way it should get built. But when we talk through it, it works out. No, that makes sense. What about golden nuggets? You have some golden nuggets for our listeners? Gosh, I would say, number one, rule in real estate. You make your money when you buy the house. What you pay for the house is where you make the money. So don’t just fall in love with a house and pay too much for it. Every house has beauty in it. You can find it. Get a great deal. That’s the number one priority. Two, don’t be afraid. Just go for it. Like get in, get your feet wet. What’s the worst that can happen? And I think a lot of times people just are like, well, that’s too much. That’s too like, oh, I don’t think we can do that. But they haven’t really actually asked the question if it can be done. They just think it can’t. And so don’t be afraid of saying yes to trying it out. Don’t get in over your head either. That’s another another big golden nugget is like, know what your costs are going to be. Don’t get in over your head. You mentioned earlier, you’re carrying cost. It isn’t just, okay, I want this kitchen to look gorgeous. And I want this specialty tile, but it’s going to take six months for the tile to get here, which means you’re going to pay the mortgage on that house for six months waiting for that tile. And you don’t want to do that because it just made the cost of that tile exorbitant. So have a budget in mind when you start and really, really stick to it, but make it a realistic budget. Also, we just had a client that had hired the contractor to build a house. And when we went to go buy appliances and go buy plumbing and lighting that they had a total that they felt good with, with the contractor, like I think it was a $1.5 million build. And that was the total they they didn’t know how to read what the builder like they didn’t really understand. Okay, well, we’re budgeted this much for each item, the appliance package on a million and a half dollar house was like $30,000. That’s that’s like apartment kind of, you know, like, that’s not what you put in a million dollar house. And then their plumbing, their entire plumbing package for this enormous house was like $12,000. Well, you can’t you can’t go to Home Depot and buy that, that that is right, unrealistic and completely impossible to actually make happen. And it’s going to be really ugly. It’s going to be like bargain basement stuff if you do it. So when you’re reading your, your builders contract, look at those lines, like, price it out. Like, can you can you spend $30,000 in appliances and be happy? Or do you need to cut something else? Think through it. That’s Yeah, that’s great. That’s great advice. Do you have a favorite book, fundamental book you think everybody should read or just one you’re currently enjoying? I love reading. Like I said, I read a book a week at least. I think the best book I’ve ever read is Theo of Golden. It is a new book this year, or in the last five years, but it is trending big time right now. I think it is if the world would be a better place if everyone read this book. It’s a very heartwarming character that loves beauty and art. But I think the biggest takeaway about the book is that it’s all about kindness, compassion, curiosity, and being generous with your time, your attention and your your resources, whether that’s money or ability. So being generous in those ways that that really, you can change lives. I love it. What was the name again? Theo of Golden. Alan Levy is the author and he is a brilliant person. He self-published, wrote, edited, self-published the book himself and it is on every best-selling list right now. Okay, cool. Yeah. Where can people find more? What’s your social media? Where are you active? How can they find more about you? You can find me on Instagram, Tamra Day, or our design page, which is Tamra Day Design. So if you want to hear about my life and what’s happening, some design, some family, some of my favorite stuff, Tamra Day. If you want to learn more about our design programs and what we do in design and what projects we’re working on, you can go to Tamra Day Designs or our website is Tamra Day as well. TamraDay.com. Well, Tamra, it’s been a lot of fun talking to you. Thanks so much for being on the show. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to the REI Agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week. Visit REIAgent.com for more content. Until next time, keep building the life you want. All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.