Wale Lawal on Houston Rentals, BRRRR Lessons and Buying From Builders in Q4

Wale Lawal came to the United States from Nigeria to study chemical engineering, earned his master’s degree and spent about five years in oil and gas. Then he went looking for a way to secure his retirement. Everything pointed at real estate, but first he tried crypto, Forex trading and a transportation business, and lost money in all three. In 2020 he went all in on real estate. Today he is a broker and investor at Networth Builders Realty in Houston, owns 30-plus rental properties, has closed over $100 million in transactions and has helped more than 400 investor clients build portfolios of their own. On this episode of The REI Agent, he walks host Mattias Clymer through what rentals cost today, the BRRRR that left him with an empty lot, the time of year national builders discount hardest, and the six-letter test he uses to pick an agent.

Who does an investor agent like Wale Lawal actually serve?

Wale calls himself an investor agent, and he’s specific about who that means. His clients are mostly busy professionals who want long-term buy-and-hold rentals to reach a particular goal: retirement, financial freedom, quitting their job, the option to work or not, or saving on taxes. Buy-and-hold rentals are his “bread and butter,” and he invests in them himself. As he puts it, he is “pretty much copy and pasting” whatever he does for his own portfolio to help his clients.

His sweet spot is residential: single-family homes, duplexes and fourplexes, up to about 20 units. He does a little townhouse business, but most of it is single-family and small multifamily. His own portfolio looks the same.

That overlap is the point. When the agent buys the same kind of asset as the client, the advice comes from experience instead of theory. It’s a theme Wale comes back to through the whole conversation, and it ends up as one of the letters in his agent framework below.

Do rental properties still cash flow with today’s interest rates?

Yes, but not on 2020 terms. “This is not 2020,” Wale says, “and unfortunately people are still stuck in that 2020 low interest rates mindset.” In his market, rentals still cash flow when the investor puts 20 to 25% down. Someone house hacking (living in one unit) can still use an FHA loan with as little as 3.5% down, but he’s clear that at that point the property won’t cash flow, because so little money is going in.

He’s also clear about who this market suits: it is not a market for people who don’t know what they’re doing. Investors need education and they need to really want to do it. The upside for the ones who are ready is that there are very few serious investor buyers right now. With more supply than buyers, the ones who show up have the upper hand.

For agents, that’s a useful way to frame conversations with investor clients. The question isn’t whether rentals still work. It’s whether the client is prepared, capitalized and committed enough to take advantage of a market where few people are competing.

What does the Houston real estate market look like right now?

Houston appreciated quickly in 2020 and 2021, and Wale says it is now going through a correction. He sees that as good news for serious investors, “because now you can go negotiate really aggressively.” Population, a diverse economy and major airports have kept Houston “holding steady” overall, even if some pockets ran up too fast during COVID. On the whole, he says it’s still a buyer’s market in most of the city.

His evidence is a recent deal. About three weeks before recording, he helped a client close on a duplex at $415,000, which gave her roughly $35,000 in equity on day one. She hadn’t used any exotic strategy. She spent a few weeks educating herself and working with him, then pulled the trigger. Because he negotiates hard in a soft market, he says, appraisals keep coming in above the purchase price on his deals.

Days on market have stretched too. On the investment properties he usually pursues, listings used to sell in about 22 days. Now it’s roughly 48 to 65 days, even with good photos and good marketing. He points out that listing-agent quality matters here. An agent who doesn’t pick up the phone keeps a property sitting, because buyers’ agents can’t get an offer in front of someone they can’t reach.

What went wrong with Wale Lawal’s BRRRR deal?

Wale opens up about his biggest loss. BRRRR stands for buy, renovate, rent, refinance and repeat. You usually buy with hard money or your own cash, renovate, rent the property out, then refinance to pay back the lender or yourself. Two or three years into the business, he bought a badly distressed fourplex as a BRRRR. He was counting on a contractor who told him not to worry: he’d “done something worse than this one.”

He hadn’t. The repairs cost far too much, the contractor didn’t follow through and Wale ended up chasing him down. Four or five months in, the building was “literally wobbling, about to fall down.” The city shut the job down. The property sat right across from an elementary school, and it had to be demolished. “I bought a fourplex, supposedly a fourplex. I got an empty land,” he says. It has been an empty lot since 2021, and he still had to repay the hard money.

The lesson he took from it is specific: “even if you’re going to do BRRRR, make sure that the structure is good.” He has done two successful BRRRRs since, both 1,300-square-foot, three-bedroom, two-bath single-family homes. Today he’ll only consider one when the discount is big enough that he’d still come out fine after losing three or four months or part of his equity to the renovation. Mattias agrees that a BRRRR “really has to be a screaming deal right now.” Getting all your cash back out was always the holy grail, and at current rates even making a refinanced property cash flow can be hard. Mattias’s own last BRRRR only worked once he turned it into a midterm rental.

“I bought a fourplex, supposedly a fourplex. I got an empty land.” — Wale Lawal

When do national builders offer the biggest discounts on new construction?

This is the tip Mattias calls a “golden nugget.” After the fourplex, and as his brokerage got busier, Wale moved away from distressed properties toward turnkey, rent-ready homes, and mostly new construction bought straight from the builder. He has three advantages: builders know him, he negotiates hard, and he times his purchases.

“I target their fiscal year,” he explains. “This is what people don’t know.” The window is September, October and November, when D.R. Horton, Lennar and other large national builders are “throwing a lot of discount” because they want to hit their annual targets. For any investor buying new construction, and any agent representing one, that’s a calendar you can actually use.

Wale suggests new construction as the starting point for new investors. You probably can’t negotiate those discounts as a walk-in buyer, he says, which is why you need an investor-friendly agent. Mattias adds why it makes such a good “base hit”: with a brand-new property you don’t have to worry about capex for a while, and you can build reserves before appliances start wearing out. Wale notes that tenants in brand-new communities also tend to stay longer. Both agree that a steady base hit beats waiting for the perfect home run, which is often just analysis paralysis in disguise. In Wale’s words, it’s fine to like the creative strategies you hear about online, but you have to “internalize” one and ask whether it fits your situation, your lifestyle and your risk threshold.

Is a real estate coaching program worth it for your first rental property?

Wale’s advice to new investors starts before any property: define your why, then define your buy box. Why do you want to invest at all? Then, what exactly will you buy: single-family, a duplex, a large apartment complex? Next, partner with an experienced investor agent, even if you have a license yourself, because when you’re starting out you don’t yet know what you don’t know. When clients work with him, he helps them build their whole team: lender, inspector, contractor, CPA and real estate attorney.

Then comes his warning. People call him all the time after buying course after course and coaching program after coaching program. “I’ve even had people spend like $50,000 on coaching program,” he says. When he asks them how many properties they own, the answer is zero. That $50,000 “could have gone so far on down payment.”

He isn’t against coaching. He runs one himself, Networth Builders Academy. His point is about timing. For a first rental, you need the fundamentals and a good investor agent who already has the knowledge. Once you’re on property two or three and want to get serious, that’s when it makes sense to hire a coach for your strategy.

What does it take to succeed as a new real estate agent?

For people thinking about getting licensed, Wale starts with a reality check. He hopes they aren’t getting into it because they watch a lot of HGTV or follow Ryan Serhant and think real estate is what happens on TV. Real estate sales is entrepreneurship. “You are a solopreneur,” he says. You have to motivate yourself and pick yourself back up. Where people go wrong, he says, is that “they are bringing the nine to five mindset” into real estate. They come in for the flexible schedule, never get traction and end up quitting or letting their license lapse. “Because it is a jungle,” he says, “you have to fend for yourself.”

His fix is a strong why (not “I love showing houses”), a real hustle mindset and a mentor. Then comes the advice nobody wants to hear: “don’t focus on the money at the beginning. Just focus on learning.” If an experienced producer will teach you in exchange for 50% of your commission, “gladly give them 50%.” After six months to a year, and maybe 10 closings, you’ll have leverage to renegotiate. Before that, they’re the ones taking a risk on you. Mattias puts it simply: the split doesn’t matter if your percentage is of zero. With the right reasons, the right guidance and daily hustle, Wale says new agents can get to two or three deals a month, and from there it can snowball to eight to 10. He also warns against picking a mentor by follower count. Check their production on the MLS, because some agents “just do social media for social media.”

What is an ON FIRE agent?

Wale credits Brandon Turner or BiggerPockets for the acronym. He isn’t sure which. His point is that if you find an ON FIRE agent, “90% of your problem has been solved.” It’s a checklist investors can use to choose an agent, and one agents can use to grade themselves:

O: Organized. No matter how good they are, a disorganized agent can’t help you.
N: Networked. They know other people and connect people to people.
F: Focused. Focused on investing, focused on you, and able to keep you focused.
I: Investor. They own the kind of asset they’re helping you buy. “You can’t help me cross a road that you have not walked before.”
R: Responsive. An agent who calls back three days later has already cost you the deal. If they check every other box but don’t pick up the phone, “they are useless to you.”
E: Experienced. They’ve done it before, many times.

For agents who serve investors, the “I” is the one to think hardest about. If you want to represent investors, owning the asset class yourself is one of the clearest ways to earn their trust.

Listen to the full episode

Wale’s story covers the full arc: the distractions that cost him money, the fourplex that became an empty lot, and a business built on helping busy professionals buy rentals that actually work. His advice is refreshingly practical. Define your why and your buy box, time your new-construction purchases to the builders’ fiscal year, make sure the structure is sound, skip the $50,000 coaching program for your first deal, and work with an agent who’s ON FIRE. For newer agents, focus on learning first and let the money follow. He also recommends a book, The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan, for any entrepreneur who keeps starting bridges they never finish.

Listen to the full conversation with Wale Lawal on The REI Agent, and find more at networthbuildersacademy.com or on Instagram at @wale_lawal. If you want help building a relationship-based business that keeps paying off, from your sphere and follow-up to your own investment portfolio, take a look at the REI Agent Advisor at advisor.reiagent.com. It’s built to help agents like you put ideas like these to work.

Full Episode Transcript

[00:00.02] Mattias Clymer: Welcome back to the REI Agent. My guest today is Wale Lawal, broker and investor at Networth Builders Realty in Houston, Texas. Wale came to the United States from Nigeria with a background in chemical engineering. And what he built from that starting point is a story our audience needs to hear. He owns 30 plus rental properties. He’s closed over 100 million in transactions and has helped more than 400 investor clients build their own portfolios with a particular focus on serving busy professionals who want to build wealth through real estate, but needs someone who speaks their language without all the confusion or analysis paralysis. Wale, welcome to the REI Agent podcast. Thank you. Thank

[00:41.84] Wale Lawal: you. Thank you, Mattias. Thank you for having me. I’m super excited to be here. Hey,

[00:48.06] Mattias Clymer: first of all, I love your name. There’s a good rapper out of the DC area that, you know what I’m talking about. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56.91] Wale Lawal: Wale, Wale. He’s from Nigeria as well. I mean,

[01:00.98] Mattias Clymer: originally from

[01:02.95] Wale Lawal: Nigeria. Yeah.

[01:03.96] Mattias Clymer: No, that’s cool. All right. I wondered if that was a more common name because I haven’t heard it a ton, but

[01:09.43] Wale Lawal: yeah. Yeah.

[01:10.24] Mattias Clymer: Well, tell us a little bit about how you got to the United States and then, um, how you got into real

[01:14.55] Wale Lawal: estate. Oh man. Um, I mean, I came in to the United States from Nigeria. I’m a, I mean, I’m an immigrant, uh, came in to study chemical engineering. So I went to college, got my chemical engineering master’s degree. I work in the oil and gas for about five years. Then I was looking for parts to, you know, to secure my future, secure my retirement and of course help my coming generation. So then, uh, everything start pointing me to real estate. I go distracted for some time, you know, because I was, you know, we, as an entrepreneur, right, we always chase all these giant shining objects thing. So I got distracted and I went to do crypto. I went to do, uh, Forex trading. I went to do transportation, but eventually, of course, I lost money there and, um, I had to come back and focus on real estate full time. So I, you know, went all in in real estate 2020. And, um, since then I’ve been helping myself and helping, you know, clients and, you know, coaching students and all that

[02:18.29] Mattias Clymer: stuff. Yeah, that’s awesome. Um, I think that is probably a very common thing for entrepreneurs to kind of, uh, go down various rabbit holes. I think, um, it’s maybe both a gift and a curse to be kind of future thinking and kind of always, uh, maybe scheming is another way to put it. Um, but yeah, awesome that you went all in on real estate. So, so you are both a broker, you’re an agent. Um, do you focus on selling, um, uh, to investors or are you, are you working in just kind of residential in general? What’s, what’s that look like to you?

[02:51.22] Wale Lawal: Yeah, I am a real estate broker and I’m also an investor. I focus more on rental property investing people that want to buy rentals as a equal to, you know, achieve all those goals like retirement, financial freedom, quit my job, uh, have the option to work or not work, um, save on taxes. You already know the benefits. So yes, that’s what I focus on long-term buy and hold rental as my bread and butter. And of course I’m an investor as well. That’s what I’m doing myself every single day. So pretty much copy and pasting whatever I’m doing to help, you know, anybody that needs my help. Yeah. I’m considered an investor agent.

[03:34.64] Mattias Clymer: So yeah, you’re, you’re a perfect fit for the, for the show. Um, what, I mean, so what, what are the, what are the, the rentals look like these days? I know that, uh, with the interest rates being higher, um, it can be harder to, to pencil out. Um, so how are you helping, um, people buy? Cause obviously, uh, I always say that, you know, like, uh, buying rental properties is kind of like planting trees. The best time was, you know, 20 years ago, but the next best time is, is now. Um, how do you help people kind of through that and do, do people have to put more cash down or how are they able to, to make things work now?

[04:10.40] Wale Lawal: Yeah, definitely. The market has, you know, definitely changed. Uh, this is not 2020 and unfortunately people are still stuck in that 2020 low interest rates mindset. So, um, right now property are still cash flowing. Um, they do need to put between 20 to 25% down. If they are of course not going to live there, if that investor will leave them, maybe they are doing house hacking, they can put as little as 3.5% FHA. Of course, at

[04:38.15] Mattias Clymer: that point,

[04:38.95] Wale Lawal: it’s not going to cash flow because you know, they, they know they are putting little money down. So property are still cash flowing. Um, it’s definitely not, um, a market for people that don’t know what you’re doing. Uh, they need to get education. They need to definitely want to do it as well. Um, so yeah, but people are still getting due. The advantage here is that there are very few serious investor buyers that really want to play. So those that want to play, they are getting this good deal because there is more supply than, um, you know, than people that want to buy. So hence they are using the upper hand to get a deal. Yeah. And

[05:19.11] Mattias Clymer: so in, in Houston, when you’re helping, um, folks purchase rentals, are you looking more in, in the, the small multifamily space or, or, or is it anywhere from, you know, single family townhouses? What does that typically look like?

[05:34.30] Wale Lawal: Yeah. It’s mostly residential, like, you know, single family, duplexes, fourplexes, you know, up to 20 units. Those are my sweet spot, like one to 10, one to 20 rather. Um, yeah, we do a little bit of townhouse, but it’s mostly single family, small multifamilies. We do. Sure. Again, one to 20 units.

[05:55.42] Mattias Clymer: Yeah. No, that makes sense. And, and what, what does the Houston market look like, um, right now, as far as, uh, you know, I talked to people across the country all the time and, and depending on, on who I’m talking to, where they’re at, you know, they all have a different kind of outlook as to what’s happening in the market. People in Florida have been, um, you know, kind of doom and gloom for a while. Uh, people in Austin, uh, Arizona have been kind of doom and gloom, but I know that Austin kind of saw a huge spike, um, in, in, uh, the, the prices and then demand, um, through COVID so that they are a little bit different than the rest of Texas. So what, what’s Houston looking like these days?

[06:32.62] Wale Lawal: Yeah. I mean, Houston, you know, appreciated really fast during that 2020, 2021, of course, what they are experiencing is correction right now. It’s actually a good market for any serious investor to buy, because now you can go negotiate really aggressively. So, but for Houston, um, Houston has always been holding steady, uh, because I mean, the population, the economy supports it, you know, airports, um, very diversified for people from different backgrounds. So Houston has always holding steady. Now that doesn’t mean that there are not some parts of Houston that also maybe rose, you know, climb too fast during the COVID, but pretty much is holding steady, but averagely or on the largest scale, I would say it’s still a buyer’s market in most pockets of Houston, because again, there’s more supply than, you know, demand. Hence, whoever is ready to play can, you know, play very well and win some good deal. I just actually helped someone to, you know, close on a duplex about three weeks ago, I guess. And, um, she got it for what’s for, I think we close at 415. Yeah. I praise for like 440 or something for 45. So long story short, she get like $35,000 equity

[07:47.18] Mattias Clymer: on

[07:47.18] Wale Lawal: day one, because she just want to, she just really, of course, she’s been educating herself. She’s been hanging around with me for about a couple of, you know, weeks, you know, eventually she put the trigger and I made it happen for her. So, um, so those are the kind of deal people are getting, you’re getting instant equity. Once you close on the property, you’re walking into equity, as you know, appraiser is not a problem. They appraise, always appraise for more than what we’re paying for it. Again, because of the negotiation and the market softening, you know, and little buyers, more sellers. So, yeah. What,

[08:20.79] Mattias Clymer: what is, um, the average days in the market then look like for, I know that’s probably different in different sectors, different areas and everything, but like kind of in the rental property that you’re looking at is what are, are places sitting on the market for months? Like what’s that look like?

[08:34.81] Wale Lawal: Yeah. You already know this, man. And as a real estate professional yourself, days on the market depends on so many factors, right? The age of the property, the quality of the neighborhood, the quality of the listing agent, if they are not picking their call, it’s going to stay longer on the market, but nobody can talk to that agent. And if I can’t talk to you, I can send you an offer, right? So I’m not going to that thing, but on the average for the deals I normally pursue for people, um, it used to be around 22 days, but right now it’s about roughly around 48 to 65 days right now. So when you put a house, a property, typical investment property on the market, of course, provided everything is good, you know, good picture,

[09:16.22] Mattias Clymer: good marketing, they still think about

[09:18.80] Wale Lawal: average of 48 days for them to get any serious, you know, offer or serious action on that property.

[09:27.02] Mattias Clymer: Yeah. And I, uh, it’s, you’re right. I mean, like, like if, if one of the things I tell people all the time, like, you know, if you want to sell fast, like, you know, uh, the list, the house for a dollar, it’s going to sell fast. Right. I mean, uh, and, and obviously I’m not suggesting that you actually do that, but in, in within from between a dollar and a million dollars, if it’s worth 500, there’s going to be a spot in there that it sells fast and it’s going to be trying to find that sweet spot. Um, so, um, I mean, let’s go through your investment journey a little bit as well. So did you, did you start buying property in 2020 or, or, or you had already done a little bit and then you started dabbling in some other stuff that went full in on the real estate again into 2020?

[10:09.58] Wale Lawal: Yeah. I bought a first property in 2019. Then I got distracted after that one. But of course, after losing those money to transportation, Forex trading, cryptocurrency, I quickly came back to real estate in 2020. And since then I never, I’ve never looked back. So, um, yeah, that’s what I do. My portfolio comprised of single family and small multifamily again, which is what I help people to do every single day. So are you

[10:36.03] Mattias Clymer: picking up properties that need, um, renovation? Are you doing like the BRRRR strategy or anything like that? Or have you done, um, just kind of traditional, you know, by 20% down and longterm? Yeah. Yeah.

[10:48.86] Wale Lawal: I did BRRRR when I got started, but I actually did a BRRRR that went really, really wrong.

[10:53.66] Mattias Clymer: I bought

[10:54.37] Wale Lawal: it for like, I bought a fourplex that’s supposed to be a BRRRR as opposed to, for people that don’t know BRRRR, it means you, you buy, you renovate, you rent it out and, uh, you refinance from typically hard money lending and, um, or maybe your own cash, but at least you have to refinance to free up that money that pay back yourself or you pay back the hard money. And of course you repeat, that’s the BRRRR. I believe I have the book behind me as well. So, um, I did that. It was a fourplex, but everything went bad. It was totally, you know, distressed property. I was super new. I think that was my year two or year three-ish into the business. So, and I was relying on the contractor to kind of help me make that ugly looking house to look beautiful again. But I was wrong. And, um, I guess that was my own first, you know, real, real time

[11:46.70] Mattias Clymer: cost way too much or how’d that go

[11:48.71] Wale Lawal: bad? Yeah. Yeah. It costs way too much to fix. And also the contractor didn’t follow through on what he’s supposed to do. I literally was chasing him down. Eventually the structure was gone. It was structurally distressed. Like, and that’s one thing I learned that even if you’re going to do BRRRR, make sure that the structure is good. The structure of that property was gone. I wouldn’t have bought it without the contractor telling me he can fix it. So he told me, don’t worry. I’ve done something worse than this one. We can knock this out. You know how contractor always, you know, use your sweet mouth. So long story short, I bought it. And, um, uh, well, four, five months later after trying to resolve it, fix it up. Plus the contractor was also irresponsible. I would say that at this point. And, um, eventually the house was literally wobbling, about to fall down. And the city has to come there. The city has to come and shut down the job and say that, Hey, this is not safe. And unluckily, so unlucky for me, it was right opposite an elementary school.

[12:49.98] Mattias Clymer: So, so they were

[12:50.00] Wale Lawal: saying that, Hey, this is not safe. We had to demolish it. And again, not so good for me right now. It’s been an empty land since 2021. It’s an empty lot. Just sitting there. I bought a fourplex, supposedly a fourplex. I got an empty land. So yeah, that was the BRRRR. So I do BRRRR. I did BRRRR. After that experience. And also I got super busy with my real estate brokerage business and also investing, helping people. I got busy. Like, Hey, I don’t have time for all these distressed properties anymore. So I just, you know, focus more on the turnkey rent ready, uh, or need a little bit of work. Well, mostly I do new construction. I buy new construction directly from the builder, you know, but I have big advantage of, you know, first of all, they know me. Second of all, I use all the negotiation, you know, to get the best deal possible. And third, I target their fiscal year. This is what people don’t know those September, October, November. Those are good times to get a deal on D.R. Horton or Lennar homes, all these big, big national builders. They are throwing a lot of discount at that point because they want to hit their annual targets. So yeah, that’s what I do right now. That’s a

[14:06.62] Mattias Clymer: golden nugget right there. That’s, that’s great. Um, yeah. And it’s definitely, you know, there, there is, I, I have done a number of BRRRRs and, um, I haven’t had any kind of nightmare stories like that, but, um, you know, it’s, it’s true. Like if, if you haven’t flipped the property, if you’re new to that altogether, it is, you know, it’s definitely not something to take lightly, um, for sure. And, and, you know, it, that’s, that’s, that’s pretty crazy. Um, I don’t think I’ve heard, like, cause I normally say, you know, like, uh, if you’re, if you’re flipping a property, if you’re taking on a property, they’re going to have to renovate. It is like, people almost always think it’s like, you know, uh, it’s, I could lose, I am buying this place for $150,000. It needs to work. I’m going to lose $150,000. And that’s like rarely the case. Um, but like, that’s the circumstance where you could, you could be really eating on most of that. Like, I mean, if it’s just the land now, that’s, that’s, uh, that’s pretty rough. So definitely good to, to, uh, uh, you

[15:09.42] Wale Lawal: know, that doesn’t mean I’ve also done two successful BRRRRs, right? That was just the one that like, ah, kind of like knocked me out, but the one I’ve done successfully, they are single family homes, 1,300 square foot, three bedroom, two bath kind of thing. So, but this one was kind of big, but again, the contractor just completely, you know, misled me. Um, he didn’t follow through. The result is that I lost money, you know, and I had to pay the hard money, hard money back. And, um, you know, so it’s, it sucks. So that then from there, I don’t really do BRRRR, um, except I know that, Hey, maybe I’m buying with a huge discount that even if I lost three months or four months on the renovation, or if I lost certain percentage of the equity I bought in, I’m still good. I would do, and then that’s when I would do BRRRR. But there are a lot of deals right now that just doesn’t justify the reason why I have to go after a distress, you know, properties.

[16:06.56] Mattias Clymer: It really has to be a screaming deal right now. Um, because, because I mean, not only like the risk side of things, but that’s definitely true, but like, you know, just to, to be able to pull all the cash out, that was always like, you know, like kind of the, if you could do a hundred percent BRRRR, where you actually got all the money back, that was like kind of like a, you know, like a holy grail. Not everybody could do that successfully all the time. Um, but, but on top of that, like with the rates, the, where they, where they are, like, you know, to make that property, then cashflow, depending on your market, it can be challenging that we ran into that on our last one. We really liked the property that we probably could have, you know, sold for a good profit, but we, we really liked the location of the property. So we really wanted to hold it. But, um, and, and we made it work by turning it into a midterm rental. Um, but it, it otherwise made absolutely no sense as a BRRRR. Yeah. Um, so, but anyway, um, I think, you know, it can be, it can be a really good strategy. I think partnering people that have flipped, um, is, is one opportunity, um, to incentivize them to, um, partner with you. You might have to find the deal. You might have to do some sweat equity on that. If you’re too busy, um, to, to take on that kind of thing, then it may not make sense. Like, so doing stuff like you’re doing, like, you know, is, is great. I mean, if you continue to buy property, uh, you know, you’re going to do well long-term and it doesn’t really matter if you’ve got it as a BRRRR or yeah. I mean, it

[17:30.96] Wale Lawal: 100%. Yeah. 100%. And this is what I tell new people all the time, like, Hey, it’s fine to like all these creative strategies and all those things you hear online, but you have to eventually internalize that strategy. Hey, does it fit into my own situation? Does it fit into my lifestyle? Does it even match my risk threshold? There are some people who are very risk averse and they want to do all this complicated, like, no, no, no, start with the regular traditional biting more than you can chew, you know? Yeah.

[18:04.38] Mattias Clymer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Taking a base hits better than, you know, never going to the, going to the plate to bat, you know, like you’re looking

[18:10.20] Wale Lawal: for home run. And then that’s

[18:12.41] Mattias Clymer: the thing people, I mean, that’s the, that’s a really common thing is people want to, they get into the analysis paralysis. They get, they get excited about all the different methods that they hear all the different strategies and they, but this is gonna be it. This is gonna be, this is, this is gonna be it. But really, it’s just an excuse to not take action. Like if they’re, they might be scared. Um, so yeah, like, I mean, talk about a great base hit is a new construction property that you don’t have to worry about capex for a while.

[18:39.18] Wale Lawal: Um, and, um, you

[18:40.17] Mattias Clymer: can, you can start building up the reserves for for whenever there is capex, because we all know the

[18:45.16] Wale Lawal: appliances. You’re buying in a brand new community where tenants will stay there for longer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[18:54.35] Mattias Clymer: Yeah. That’s awesome. Um, yeah. I mean, so if you were to, uh, if, if there was a, an agent that was excited or some, a newer agent that was excited about, uh, everything real estate, they wanted to buy investment properties, they wanted to get started in, um, and, and being an agent and getting their sales going, um, what advice would you give them for, uh, for investing first and then, and then what advice would you give them for, for being a sales agent? Oh, that’s

[19:23.99] Wale Lawal: a two part question, right? So number one, if they want to be an investor, I will definitely tell them to spend some time to clearly define their buy box. And what should they want to buy? And also that also goes with their why they have to define their why, right? Why do you want to invest in real estate? You have to be very clear with that, then start defining your buy box. What are you going to buy? Is it going to be single family? Is it going to be duplex? Is it going to be large apartment complex? From there, you can now, of course, partner with an experienced investor agents. You know, even if you think you have a real estate license, if you’re getting started, you don’t know what you do, what you don’t know yet, you might lose money. So partner with a good investor agent that know what they’re doing and that investor agent will help you piece all the, you know, things together because that’s what I do for people. I pretty much, once I partner, once they partner with me, I pretty much help them build the entire team. I’m talking about lender, inspector, contractor, CPA, real estate attorney, all the nine yards they need, I typically pass it to them. So that’s what I would tell that agent. And of course, from there, they should not be trapped in too much information overload. They should eventually get something done. And I face this as a new agent, as a new investor. I see that people don’t really want to help you that much. You have to figure out a lot of things. And that actually prompted me to have an online community now where I coach people on how to do it the right way without losing money. Because I see people call me all the time. They’ve bought so many courses. They bought so many coaching programs. I’ve even had people spend like $50,000 on coaching program. And I asked them, Hey, John, how many properties do you have right now? You spent 50K already? Zero. Zero. Wow. Do you know 50K could have gone so far on down payment, you know, and all that. So yeah, that’s what I would tell that agent. They don’t really need to pay for coaching if they’re just buying their first one. They just need to get the old fundamental right and work with an investor agent and know what they’re doing. Because that investor agent, again, just like me, already have all the knowledge. They’re just going to use it to help work with them. So now when they get to their number two, number three, and they think, okay, I want to really take this in serious. That is when they need to hire, you know, an investment coach, like a rental property, or depending on the strategy they’re trying to do, they should not hire, you know, that person, that coach that can guide them. So that is on the investor side. For the agent, somebody that want to be an agent, I hope they are not becoming an agent because they watch a lot of HGTV, or because they follow Ryan Serhant, you know, that makes, you know, real estate, you know, look as if everything happened on the TV. No. So real estate sales is a sales like the worst. It’s a real estate sales. It’s an entrepreneurship. It’s a small business. You are a solopreneur. You’re trying to figure everything out yourself. You’re going to be the business. You want to motivate yourself and pick yourself back up, you know, among other things. So the way I see people get this wrong is that they are bringing the nine to five mindset into the, into the real estate world. Of course, they don’t, they end up quitting or not renewing your license or they think that, oh, I’m going to be an agent because I can design my own schedule. I don’t have to work with this people I don’t want to work with. Again, they don’t get traction. The one that do well are those ones that have the hustle mindset that really want to learn and that seek the mentor that can help them. Because again, if you’re trying to figure everything out yourself, it’s just going to take you longer. Why not pay to shortcut your, your success? So what I would tell that agent is don’t join, don’t come into real estate because you watch HGTV. Some people will even say, I want to join real estate. I want to come to real estate because I love showing houses. That’s a big reason. Like that’s not strong. You have to have your strong. Why, why do you want to become an agent? Because it is a jungle. you have to fend for yourself. You know, people will even step on you to move on to

[23:25.41] Mattias Clymer: their own.

[23:26.01] Wale Lawal: You just have to like know what you’re doing and again, get the right help. So with the right reason that they want to become an agent and the right guidance and the hustle to get it done and go after it every single day, even if you’re not getting any results, that is what will make them start closing two or three deals every month. And from there, it will snowball from there to becoming maybe closing, you know, eight to 10 property every month. At that point, of course, they’re making a lot of money. So, but the work ethic must be solid and the hustle must continue even when they are closing 10 deals every single month. Yeah.

[24:01.88] Mattias Clymer: Yeah, that’s really true. That’s really well said. I mean, it is, it is hard sometimes to get so busy in the deals you’re working to, to like do the things that are needed to kind of make sure the next month that you’re still busy. So, it’s a, it’s definitely a hard balance and, and being a self-starter is definitely important. Having, finding those activities that, you know, you can do on a day-to-day basis that really moves the needle is, is important and, and really, you know, tracking those things is definitely is key as well. And, you know, there’s so valuable to be able to work with somebody that, yeah, that does know what they’re doing. Um, well, what, what about, uh, some golden nuggets, uh, that you would give to our listeners

[24:45.12] Wale Lawal: today? Um, I mean, there’s, I just, I think I dropped one already. Number one, if you’re getting started, go after new construction, um, you’re going to get great deal from there. Of course, if you’re, you might not be able to negotiate yourself as a buyer. That’s why you need a investor agent or investor friendly agents. Um, I think, uh, I don’t know if it’s Brandon Turner or BiggerPockets, he coined this on fire agents. So that if you get an on fire agent, 90% of your problem has been solved. On fire agent means O is that is an acronym, right? O means organized. Number one, if they’re not organized, no matter how good they are, they’re not going to help you. N means network. They are well networked. They know other people. Like I

[25:28.74] Mattias Clymer: said, I

[25:28.99] Wale Lawal: connect people to people, right? F means they have to be investment focus, right? Or they are investors themselves, right? Or focus on you, right? They have to focus on you or keep you focused. That’s the F. I means investor focused or investor themselves. If somebody want to represent you on a real estate by real estate investment purchase, and they do not own that kind of asset themselves, that would be a problem because they’ve not done it. You know, you can’t help me cross a road that you have not walked before. It’s not going to work. All right. The R of the ON FIRE is responsive. They have to be very responsive. Some agents are very good, but you call them. They never call you

[26:10.25] Mattias Clymer: back for three days later. Oh,

[26:12.00] Wale Lawal: I missed your call two days ago. Like what? That deal is gone

[26:15.04] Mattias Clymer: already, right?

[26:15.91] Wale Lawal: They got to be responsive. If everything check, check, check, check, and they are still not picking up their call, they are useless to you. So, and the last one is E, experience. They have to be experienced, right? Again, you cannot help me cross a road that you have not crossed before. So that is one thing. So hire an on fire agent on your, to buy an investment property. It will save you tons of time and money. So buying a new construction, hire an investor agent to help you negotiate a deal. You’re going to get a good deal. And for agents that are looking to, someone that is looking to get into real estate as an agent, I already gave all the nuggets. Have a good work ethic. Define your reason why you want to get there and hire someone or partner with someone that has done it. Maybe you like the way they portray themselves online. Maybe you like their social media and all that, but be careful with social media. Some of those agents posting on social media, they don’t close any deal. They just do social media for social media. So make sure you match the social media presence with the, go look at the MLS and see what they are doing. If they are closing deal, that might be someone to reach out to. Hey, I like what you’re doing. I’m an aspiring real estate agent. I want to get my license. Are you going to coach me? And all that stuff. And big one here, don’t focus on the money at the beginning. Just focus on learning because some agents are, when you’re new, you don’t know. Again, you just need the knowledge. You don’t know what you don’t know. But so let’s say you partner with someone and say they will take 50% of your compensation. Gladly give them 50% because if you work with them for six months, one year,

[27:45.42] Mattias Clymer: now you

[27:45.44] Wale Lawal: have the upper hand to negotiate your own time. Because at that point, you are no longer new. Maybe you close like 10 deals, right? But if you’re getting started, they are even taking a risk on you, trying to pour in their time to develop you. So you have no leverage to be negotiating at that point. So I hope that helps someone out there. Yeah.

[28:04.43] Mattias Clymer: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, you know, it doesn’t really matter what percentage, uh, you’re getting if it’s zero, right? Like if you’re not, like, um, it is definitely, uh, something that’s, uh, it’s more important to learn how to do the business right and how to do

[28:21.96] Wale Lawal: it well

[28:22.28] Mattias Clymer: and success in the longterm. Um, now I see if anybody’s watching this, uh, Wale’s got a few books behind him, a lot of them, I recognize, but, uh, what is your favorite book? One do you think that’s fundamental that everybody should read or just one that you’re currently enjoying? Oh man, let me

[28:37.67] Wale Lawal: see. I think I will recommend the one thing I believe is behind this one right here, this book right here. The one thing, uh, I believe is, uh, with Gary Keller and Jay Papasan, because I mean, again, as an entrepreneur, we get distracted easily. You’re chasing the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. So the book just said, Hey, focus on one thing until you succeed. Then start building the next bridge, stop building unfinished bridge or unfinished bridges, right? So build one bridge successfully, make sure it’s running, make sure it’s, if it’s a business, make sure it’s profitable before you start the next adventure. So that book, it will change a lot of people’s lives. So yeah, that’s it.

[29:19.22] Mattias Clymer: I love it. Um, and then if somebody is interested in learning more about you, um, what, like, where can they find you on social media, websites, et cetera. Cool. I

[29:28.32] Wale Lawal: have a coaching program where I, again, take new people that don’t know anything about real estate to taking them to start buying two to three properties or five properties, depending on how fast they want to go every single year. So it’s a coaching program, uh, very exclusive to people that are very serious. Uh, it’s focused on serious real estate professional or new, new, new real estate, you know, people that want to get to real estate. So, and, um, yeah, they can find it at networthbuildersacademy.com, networthbuildersacademy.com. Yeah, that’s on my social as well. Um, they can also find me on YouTube. I have a YouTube channel where I, you know, throw in a lot of, you know, nuggets more than what I’m giving here on my YouTube as well. And of course I’m on Instagram @wale_lawal. You can send me a DM and, um, you know, reach out to me. I’m very accessible and I’m always, you know, willing to help people that really want to help

[30:20.94] Mattias Clymer: themselves. Awesome. Well, Wale, thank you so much for being on the show. It’s been a lot of fun talking to you.

[30:26.38] Wale Lawal: Thank you so much, Matt. I really enjoyed being here.

[30:31.75] Mattias Clymer: Thank you, bro.